USA H2A farm worker program

Hi,

   Has anyone investigated the H2A visa program in the USA? My idea is to setup a website to connect small USA farms with interested workers in Sierra Leone. We'd have someone in Sierra Leone setup biographies on the website and a photo. Then the farm in the USA can work with us to apply for an H2A visa. The H2A is an agricultural worker visa for up to a year but renewable for an additional 2 years. The family can also come but cannot work. The children do get education for free as in the USA for all children. Of course the children can also apply for local colleges and possibly get the student visa (F2 I think it is called) etc which do allow them to work 20 hours per week from what I remember.

   So, minimum wage in the USA is now $5.85/hr and soon to go to $6.55 in July. The costs of living of course vary but would probably make the program only reasonable for a group of three or more workers. E.g. renting an apartment might cost $450/month but renting a room might be as low as $150/month. The main benefit to the agricultural worker would be to get employed and then do good work to convince their employer to pay more or position themselves for other opportunities (e.g. college, other visas). The USA has many rules to prevent "work farms" (high rents of rooms, charging for use of farming equipment, requiring purchase of high-priced food from the farm, and other junk) and also the farms are subject to inspection; so, the salve farms we've heard of in the Ivory Coast and the Cuban work farms trapping tenant farmers in Florida in the early 1900's no longer exist in the USA.

   I believe many people in the USA would be willing to help Sierra Leoneans as the CIA Factbook states it is the poorest country in the world. Also, about 14 million people are already in the USA illegally (no formal immigration); so, the US government recently has relaxed the H2A program as need for workers is obviously strong.

   One risk is the worker running off. For him or her personally this may be a bad choice as they may be deported if they are caught; but, with the government considering amnesty for illegal aliens it might be a good choice too from the worker's perspective. I believe it would be bad for the farm as the Department of Labor may not allow them to use the H2A program after that though. It would be bad for the person who paid for the transportation to the USA and the costs of filing the H2A filings. So, we need honest and hard-working people only.

Here's is my rough draft business calculations:
A. Costs 
1) H2A filing. Maybe $1000 (I'm only familiar with H1 tech-worker visas and they are much costlier).
2) Transportation from Sierra Leone to the USA. $1500
3) Transportation to farm in the USA. $200
4) Apartment deposit money. $600 refundable if no damages.
5) Food costs: $10/day or more. $300/month ~ $1800/6 months

B. Income
1) Pay: $5.85 * 40 hours per week = $234/week ~ $1000/month ~ $6000/6 months

Net
$6000 - $5100 = $900.

Issue: Return flight would also cost $1500. The person would need to stay 12 months or the flights be paid for by charity or the farm owner. I suspect US law will require a return ticket.

   Of course the worker may be able to stay a year or more. Also, may be able to work more than 40 hours per week. US law requires paying workers for all "over" time unless they make something like $45,000 per year and are a technology worker or other such well-paid jobs.

   Please let me know if you might be interested and think people in Sierra Leone might be interested. The biggest cost might be the transportation to the USA; but I have hope we can either get charity groups to donate or else make this as a loan to the visa worker.

Thanks for your consideration,
Tim Jowers
TimJowers -a-t- gmail.com

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timjowers Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List New Member Joined: 07 February 2008 Location: Cary, NC, USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote timjowers Report Post Quote Reply Topic: USA H2A farm worker program Posted: 07 February 2008 at 19:41
	Hi, Has anyone investigated the H2A visa program in the USA? My idea is to setup a website to connect small USA farms with interested workers in Sierra Leone. We'd have someone in Sierra Leone setup biographies on the website and a photo. Then the farm in the USA can work with us to apply for an H2A visa. The H2A is an agricultural worker visa for up to a year but renewable for an additional 2 years. The family can also come but cannot work. The children do get education for free as in the USA for all children. Of course the children can also apply for local colleges and possibly get the student visa (F2 I think it is called) etc which do allow them to work 20 hours per week from what I remember. So, minimum wage in the USA is now $5.85/hr and soon to go to $6.55 in July. The costs of living of course vary but would probably make the program only reasonable for a group of three or more workers. E.g. renting an apartment might cost $450/month but renting a room might be as low as $150/month. The main benefit to the agricultural worker would be to get employed and then do good work to convince their employer to pay more or position themselves for other opportunities (e.g. college, other visas). The USA has many rules to prevent "work farms" (high rents of rooms, charging for use of farming equipment, requiring purchase of high-priced food from the farm, and other junk) and also the farms are subject to inspection; so, the salve farms we've heard of in the Ivory Coast and the Cuban work farms trapping tenant farmers in Florida in the early 1900's no longer exist in the USA. I believe many people in the USA would be willing to help Sierra Leoneans as the CIA Factbook states it is the poorest country in the world. Also, about 14 million people are already in the USA illegally (no formal immigration); so, the US government recently has relaxed the H2A program as need for workers is obviously strong. One risk is the worker running off. For him or her personally this may be a bad choice as they may be deported if they are caught; but, with the government considering amnesty for illegal aliens it might be a good choice too from the worker's perspective. I believe it would be bad for the farm as the Department of Labor may not allow them to use the H2A program after that though. It would be bad for the person who paid for the transportation to the USA and the costs of filing the H2A filings. So, we need honest and hard-working people only. Here's is my rough draft business calculations: A. Costs 1) H2A filing. Maybe $1000 (I'm only familiar with H1 tech-worker visas and they are much costlier). 2) Transportation from Sierra Leone to the USA. $1500 3) Transportation to farm in the USA. $200 4) Apartment deposit money. $600 refundable if no damages. 5) Food costs: $10/day or more. $300/month ~ $1800/6 months B. Income 1) Pay: $5.85 * 40 hours per week = $234/week ~ $1000/month ~ $6000/6 months Net $6000 - $5100 = $900. Issue: Return flight would also cost $1500. The person would need to stay 12 months or the flights be paid for by charity or the farm owner. I suspect US law will require a return ticket. Of course the worker may be able to stay a year or more. Also, may be able to work more than 40 hours per week. US law requires paying workers for all "over" time unless they make something like $45,000 per year and are a technology worker or other such well-paid jobs. Please let me know if you might be interested and think people in Sierra Leone might be interested. The biggest cost might be the transportation to the USA; but I have hope we can either get charity groups to donate or else make this as a loan to the visa worker. Thanks for your consideration, Tim Jowers TimJowers -a-t- gmail.com

timjowers Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List New Member Joined: 07 February 2008 Location: Cary, NC, USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote timjowers Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 February 2008 at 15:53
	More information: " Employers receiving approved labor certifications attach them in support of their I-129 petitions to DHS for authorization to employ foreign workers in H-2A status. For situations where prospective H-2A workers are outside of the U.S., the employer forwards the approved petition notice to its prospective employees who then apply for an H-2A visa at the appropriate U.S. consulate or port of entry. The Department of State then determines whether to issue visas to the foreign workers requested under the employer’s petition, who can then be admitted through the appropriate port of entry. For H-2A workers already legally present in the U.S., 10 DHS adjudicates an application to extend or change their current status to H-2A status as part of the petition approval process. " -- http://www.doleta.gov/pdf/DOL_H2A_NPRM_final_020508.pdf The whole document is a good read. C'mon, let's take advantage of this. The L1 and H1 programs have effectively over-run the tech worker fields and they have limits while the H2A has no limits. In fact, many other businesses are probably seasonal as well such as shrimping, lumber, pine straw gathering, snow ski resort work, ocean resort work.. and much more. Not sure how much of these are covered but today there is a huge demand for illegal workers and if the IRS ever chooses to enforce the tax laws then the demand for H2A workers will explode. In fact, some states such as Arizona are requiring companies to comply with tax laws despite the IRS turning a blind eye on tax evasion by employeeing illegal workers. This trend might continue; so, we could be the Wirpo or Tata of H2A. Looks how much money Tata made bringing in tech workers from India. They were even bidding to buy part of Ford motor company. Also, if you read the note then you'll see the employer has prevailing wage restrictions so, obviously, in many areas such as California the employer will pay more than minimum wage.

timjowers Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List New Member Joined: 07 February 2008 Location: Cary, NC, USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote timjowers Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 February 2008 at 16:00
	Oh yeah, we need to also figure out how much is skilled and seasonal as those could pay much more and really amortize the transportation costs.

Myworkvisa.us Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List New Member Joined: 10 February 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1	Post Options Post Reply Quote Myworkvisa.us Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 February 2008 at 05:06
	I think the H-2A program will attract workers within the nearby region, such as Mexico, Central American and Caribbean countries. Importing workers from Asia and Africa carries a much higher cost and risk for H-2A workers, considering the uncertainty of the job market once landing in the United States. In other words, the risk of major debt would be too high should something go awry. Giving loans to potential workers would also invite false hope. It doesn't make sense to spend thousands of dollars on an expensive plane ticket, when it will take a worker months to recoup the travel costs. Additionally, I suspect workers will be working much more than 40 hours a week - Let's say 60-80 hours a week. Yes, sure, that's still much more money, but workers from the nearby region can easily take a bus for a couple hundred dollars and earn enough in a week to pay off the initial travel costs. All in all, I would not advocate for workers from Asia and Africa to participate in the H-2A program. The risks and costs are simply too high. I wouldn't even go if the employer paid the travel costs because I would likely have to work off the expenses once I arrived. I would accept no handouts from the employer because nothing is free, and I would encourage employers not to take illegal deductions for any expenses from workers' paychecks. Furthermore, worker passports should always be kept with the worker and not held by the employer. In the near future, I plan to formalize my thoughts on the H-2A work visa program. Should you have interest, I currently operate a blog and recently created the Myworkvisa.us Job Board. You may post jobs and interact with potential workers. But again, it doesn't make much sense to bring workers from Asia and Africa to work a couple thousand of hours, only to make a small profit once all the travel costs and living expenses are paid. Let's keep it simple and advocate for aspiring workers in the nearby region to apply. The program would be much more beneficial to them, considering they would likely make a few thousand dollars, instead of a few hundred dollars. I would hate to see anymore articles about Thailand workers paying thousands of dollars to come work in the United States, only to be without a job once here and deep in debt once the workers return home. The United States can make a successful work program, but the work visa program is likely to benefit those who have an inexpensive way of traveling to and from the United States. - Myworkvisa.us Job Board

timjowers Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List New Member Joined: 07 February 2008 Location: Cary, NC, USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote timjowers Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 February 2008 at 14:30
	Of course no man should enter into debt for a job. If you have to buy somethign or take on debt then its not a job! Workers from Mexico and South America work as illegal workers. I think very few will consider H2A unless it is for follow-on years of working and they have special skills. About 14 million people already live and work in the USA illegally. The primary reason they are employed is tax evasion. The payroll taxes are about 15% plus the income taxes are maybe another 15%; so, an illegal worker can be paid 30% less and still take home the same money. The secondary reason is to avoid paying for Worker's Compensation (in case one is injured) and other insurance and employer costs. Many cities give safe harbor to illegal aliens and even have programs such that if they are registered then they will not be deported. New York, New York, Columbia, SC, etc. Maybe you know if one can come on an H2A and then just skip out and register as an illegal alien. Seems like an ideal plan for someone from Salone who wants to come to the USA but cannot get a green card. Especially if Barack, Jillay, or McCain become President as they all favor amnesty (giving citizenship) for illegal aliens. The H2A visa program revisions open for comment today. I invite and implore you to visit the USA government's web page and then provide feedback. Specifically, I do not think they make it attractive enough. I think their provisions still favor famrs using illegal workers. Why? No law enforcement. Judging from your "workvisa' name I suspect you know very well the L1 visa is totally a scam and Wipro and HCL as a practicve pretend the worker is managing someone when they are not really. In fact, the last place I worked still has a fellow there who's been on an L1 visa in the USA continuously for almost 7 years. The Department of Labor DOES NOT enforce the regulations in L1 or H1 for that matter. No law enforcement means the opposite of your worry is true. The H2A program could simply be a way to enter the country. Worst case, the USA pays to deport the person back to their country of origin. As you know, the USA has no debtor prison. You do not go to jail for not paying your bills. I'm sure you know that but maybe others do not. You do go to jail for committing fraud of course. Back to this idea. Yes, some farms may need to hire LEGAL workers. That is where the H2A Visa comes into play. You should well know Arizona and I think it was Missouri are now cracking down on illegal aliens. This is also being proposed across the nation in state legislatures. The days of these people evading their share of taxes and stealing healthcare are coming to an end. I'm sure you realize hospitals in Los Angeles have closed at least four emergency rooms because they were losing too much money because of the US Federal Government law they HAVE to give healthcare to illegal aliens and the illegal aliens NEVER paying for it. Likewise, the average illegal alien worker in the USA pays about $20,000 in taxes for sales tax, gas tax, and other taxes but uses about $30,000 in services including free healthcare, free education, their share of roads and other infrastructure etc. In the USA the states bear the burden of financing the Federal government plans, and cannot fiscally continue with this path; so, they are starting to enforce the law. Finally, you are right his program would not be for everyone; but, maybe for someone. Right now only certain cases might apply. For instance, charity. I'm sure many people are in a suffering situation and perhaps a charity group would help them (maybe more appropriate in Sudan than Salone). Special skills. Perhaps some special skills of seasonal workers would apply. Well, if you believe what some hotel chains tell you they say they never hire illegal aliens. Since most of their workers are immigrants then clearly they must be using a visa program; so, the visa program obviously makes sense in that case. Would be students. Perhaps one cannot get into one of the two colleges in Salone (two I've found) or cannot afford college or cannot get accepted in the USA. By coming to the USA then the person might improve their chances by making visits to the college. Despite what others might tell you, it is totally possible to work your way through college. Americans do it all the time. You can work as a waiter or other jobs and make enough money to pay for it. Of course not for a ridiculously over-priced college but for a regular one. If the Department of Labor and Internal Revenue Service of the USA start to enforce the laws, then the H2A program will be the only alternative. It is now the only legal alternative but the immigration and tax laws go unenforced at this time. I'm not familiar with the Thailand case you cite. Sounds bogus to me because any poor person in the USA can tell you nobody HAS to pay their bills. Sure, you'll get a bad credit rating and not be able to get a bank account, credit cards, or buy a house on credit but you don't HAVE to pay your bills. I'm sure you know that. And of course that means the claim the Thai people were tricked into debt is quite preposterous. In the USA you can simply pack you bags and move on to the next city. Your debt will still be recorded but you don't have to pay anyone. And of that SUCKS when you are the one renting a house to someone et cetera!!!! This is all the best of my understanding. I'd welcome more concrete details and have called the government office to try to find out more.

timjowers Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List New Member Joined: 07 February 2008 Location: Cary, NC, USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote timjowers Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 February 2008 at 14:38
	BTW, I heard the Mayor of Charlotte, NC talk the other day in a debate for Governor of North Carolina. He stated when an illegal alien is caught for a petty crime in Charlotte then they are turned over to Immigration services (I think this is INS) an Atlanta and within 3.5 hours the person is back in Charlotte as INS simply sets the free. The law is not enforced. Period. In contrast, Chapel Hill, NC has passed a law it will not turn over illegal aliens even if they are caught in a crime. So, of course people from Salone could just land in the USA illegally and be quite safe just as the Mexicans do but logistically it is tough. How can they get to the USA? On a plane they need a visa. Maybe they can come to Belize and somehow make it through Mexico just like the other South American illegal immigrants do. Well, after all is said and done, they'd be better off paying someone like maybe yourself to use a legal entry such as the H2A visa program. There is, in fact, no reason they cannot use H2A AND go to college AFAIK or use H2A and apply for another visa or green card AFAIK.

timjowers Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List New Member Joined: 07 February 2008 Location: Cary, NC, USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote timjowers Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 February 2008 at 14:40
	Correction. I typed "Jillay" but meant "Hillary".

timjowers Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List New Member Joined: 07 February 2008 Location: Cary, NC, USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote timjowers Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 February 2008 at 14:44
	By the way, the H2A visa program requires the employer to register on paper all loans and costs to the employee. Some kind of work-loan treachery like you suggest will not be allowed and could not even be enforced as a loan if the employer did something like that. Again, a person in the USA can simply walk away from their debt. In a case like you cite, the employer could very well find himself in jail if he tried such a scam. If you are an visa lawyer then I'd expect you to have known this though.

timjowers Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List New Member Joined: 07 February 2008 Location: Cary, NC, USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote timjowers Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 February 2008 at 14:47
	Overall, thanks for your feedback and the link. The best approach seems to be the employer pays all costs. This i safest for the worker. The employer could use a bonus program to entice the worker to not skip out and leave. From what you say I think we'd have to make it very clear the employee cannot be in debt to the employer. This would not be allowed in our program.